LQWiki:Forums/Archives

First Post: Do we want a real forum instead of a thread-mode wiki?
Please note that in actual operation, new topics would use two equal signs instead of three.

Thread-mode wikis have several strikes against them. Basically, they remain forum-like only so long as the posters stick by the conventions. As soon as a noob or a griefer hits the stage, things get hairy unless they are watched like a hawk by mods. There is a lot of confusion about how to start a new thread, how to reply to a post. People forget to sign, signatures can be forged trivially (although they can be checked by looking at the changelog- but who has time for that?) Posts can be edited by third parties. Somebody could post in the middle of someone else's post. Thread-mode wikis are good enough for a commentary on a article - for the most part. But for something as heavily used as this forum is liable to be, we would probably be better off with an actual forum.

The main argument against having an actual forum is if they would have too much of a drain on system resources - including the admins' time. Not being a webmin myself, I'm not qualified to answer that question.

Let me know what you think. Crazyeddie 01:21, Jun 19, 2004 (EDT)

Yes, for sure - i love forums. Dont get me wrong, i LOVE wiki's BUT i am also an avid forum user. I think the best wiki would be a wiki+Forum in a PHP manner. A wiki rules for FAQs and other things like knowledgebase BUT a forum is the best way to solve your problems. (this linux wiki is my favorite linux wiki btw, coming 2nd is a german wiki ) We could have a forum, and then we can additionally extract helpful info from the forum into the wiki. A forum is also nice - btw :) - to get in contact with other people, about their experience etc. (I am _just_ referring to the topic of LINUX, not about political things etc. In a Linux Forum i am mostly interested in chatting about Linux, and secondarily about other Linux users like crazy eddie and their experiences :) feel free to delete my post if there is a forum! i know its a bit messy one last note, i dont think its necessary to invest much of your time into MODERATING a forum... let it flow, it will work (at least it worked for me and my friends, we can even edit and delete each other's post, but somehow we dont, rarely if there are some annoying errors hehe... but then we even use word censors to include our own typos .. much easier ... PHP Forum of course btw :) - shevegen

Pre-emptive argument

 * Pre-emptive argument: Keep in mind that the LinuxQuestions.org forums are available for Linux questions. I've been trying to extract information from those forums into the wiki, but I've been pressed for time lately. This forum would be for the Wiki community. While hopefully there is a lot of overlap between the LinuxQuestions.org and the LQWiki communities, I think they are two separate communities, and the LQWiki deserves its own "watering hole".


 * To answer the other objection to these forums that I see coming down the way: Yes, I know there's the mailing list. There's a lot of arguments on the topic of forums vs. mailing lists, but I'll make just one for now: When's the last time anybody besides me, Aaron Peterson, and the mods have posted to the mailing list?


 * Anyway, these forums would be a place to discuss LQWiki related topics (as well as OT conversations with fellow LQWikiers). For linux questions, please go to linuxquestions.org, our parent site.Crazyeddie 12:03, Jun 19, 2004 (EDT)

Mailing lists are bad

 * Mailing lists are a poor substitute for forums and wikis. I have never looked at or posted to the Wiki mailing list.  There are better ways to ask questions, look for answers, or post answers within the Wiki, which is naturally organized, has a Search facility, and has instant communication, including a central place to look for recent posts.


 * For example, I didn't know what PHP meant, so I inserted a link to it, previewed, and went to the linked page to find out. Now anyone with the same problem can solve it with one click.  TomFrayne 12:56, Jun 19, 2004 (EDT)


 * The problem as I see it is that for threaded discussion of problems I think a mailing list is the best solution (note that even wikipedia uses a mailing list for devs). It allows people to post and have it get delivered right to me, I can then easily reply, etc.  While I really like the wiki, the best tool for the best job is the way to go, and I can't guarantee that I will make it to this page to check for problems - although I will try.  If someone wants to keep up with this page and act as a conduit to the mailing list, that is fine also. Jeremy 16:55, Jun 22, 2004 (EDT)


 * I don't expect this forum to replace the mailing list anytime soon, if ever. I expect this forum to be mainly used for a general discussion area. (Of course what I expect and what will actually happen are two different things.) The mailing list has its uses, being a semi-private place to discuss policy. Any serious problems will eventually work its way over to the mailing list. But on the other hand, the mailing list isn't exactly the place for casual conversation.


 * Speaking of the mailing list, I've been meaning to offically notify the mailing list of this forum page and the Community Commons, but I've been drop-dead busy this week. I'll ask this in the mailing list also, but: Jeremy, if you're reading this, how much more work would an actual forum be compared to this thread-mode wiki? Crazyeddie 01:34, Jun 24, 2004 (EDT)

Forums
(Added new section to avoid sextuplet indention) Crazyeddie 00:40, Jun 25, 2004 (EDT)

It would seem to me that having 3 places to discuss things (the wiki itself, the mailing list and a forum) would be a bit too complicated, but if the demand is sufficient we could always create a wiki sub-forum in the main LQ WQ&S forum. Jeremy 16:53, Jun 24, 2004 (EDT)

Well, as you say, the right tool for the job. Here's a breakdown of what I see the different tools and the functions they perform:


 * 1) LinuxQuestions.org Forum - Actual Linux troubles questions.
 * 2) The mailing list - Overall policy discussion for the wiki.
 * 3) Article talk pages - article specific discussions.
 * 4) User talk pages - discussions with specific users
 * 5) This forum - general discussion, as well as "swiss army knife" duty for topics that should've been discussed in the above venues, but wound up here.

It occurs to me that I've never actually got around to mentioning the "general discussion" part...

There are a few problems with having a LQwiki general discussion forum over in the LQ Website Questions & Suggestions forum. Firstly, many (perhaps most) LQWikiers don't have logins at the LQ, and of those who do, the usernames may differ, so it may be hard to tell if crazyeddie740 is the same crazyeddie who hangs out in the wiki.

Secondly, putting it in the WQ&S topic would suggest that threads be limited to, well, website questions and suggestions. That sort of thing would more properly be handled by the mailing list.

Thirdly, it could be just me, but it seems like the mods over at the LQ are a bit trigger-happy when it comes to OT-ness, even in the "General" forum. With as much traffic as those forums get, it makes sense, but I would prefer to hang in a place a bit looser run.

For now, let's just lock this forum down for actual use, and link to the prototype Community Commons page (which links here) from the main page. If I'm right, it should be obvious in a little while why I asked for a forum. If I'm wrong, well, then it's a good thing that we didn't invest all that effort :-).

Crazyeddie 00:40, Jun 25, 2004 (EDT)

Wiki-to-html?
Being too lazy to learn html, I've been looking at WYSIWYG html editors. But I find that they do too much. Since I'm fairly familar with wiki markup, a wiki-to-html tool would be great. It would let me get most of the actual page content down quickly, then let me tweak the tags and such as I learn html. Does anybody know of such a program or could code one up? Crazyeddie 01:38, Jun 24, 2004 (EDT)