Talk:Software development guidelines

Please revert Your Brain...

It is a usefull link, and it is about human/computer interaction, the content does not feel right here, and this is a prime example of things getting moved whackilly AaronPeterson 23:56, Apr 4, 2004 (EDT)


 * "Your Brain" is a misleading title to the article. The article is not about a person's grey matter, it's about commonsense development guidelines to follow when programming. Dysprosia 00:18, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)
 * Can't you let it become what it becomes? Copy IT, don't NUKE it, It's about our brains being a part of the process, our brain is arguably a computer, and it is part of eugonomic (spelling)  design.   If the content doesn't fit there, then copy it to where it does fit, and let me make "Your Brain" have content that makes sence there.  It makes sence to me as it was, and it would probably make sence to other people as well. I am not THAT unique.  besides, it's NOT PREVENTING you from copying it and putting in the format that you want it in anyway!!! [[User:A

aronPeterson|AaronPeterson]] 02:27, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)
 * I didn't "nuke" anything, Aaron, I simply moved the page and reworked what you written. This is what editors do in the process of improving articles. We are all here to improve articles, not copy what we like and what we don't like and make several versions of the one article that differ here and there - we are to work together on articles and not go our seperate ways. Dysprosia 04:13, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)
 * Dysprosia, I had a different vision for that content than you have. We ARE working together by sharing our content. I can't work on my vision of the content, If I can't get a copy from before you reworked it. We are sharing content, It's just diverging to fill different gaps. It will still be linked together, it will still be copyable by anyone, But now I can't do that without spending a lot of time recreating my page! by my page, I mean what I have put my effort into, what I have spent my opportunity costs on, what I have thought long and hard about. I have vested interest in seeing that my pages come out nicely. So do you. Who defines what is nice/right? the end users. I am writing stuff as I learn, and it is from the perspective of a new user, who now knows the &quot;correct answers&quot; and knows that the &quot;correct answers&quot; are not what the end user uses as search terms, because if they did have the correct answers they wouldn't need to search for it!

-		 -	I can't cover every user, and niether can you, or anybody else on this team. We must have multiplicity wherever it does not harm the wiki. It rarely ever does harm the wiki. (excpet on this wiki which has funkey capitalization issues)
 * Well, it may help if you said what that vision was. I'm getting frustrated here. If your vision deserves a new article, then let's make it. If it should go in this article, maybe we can work something out for this article. In future, instead of saying that others are deleting your hard work, let us know what you want out of the article instead. Dysprosia 06:07, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)

Just a word of warning: I will be nuking 'new:software development'. You have been told not to create new namespaces. You have been told not to create redundant pages. This is both.

Digiot 02:46, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)


 * HAHAHA you just deleted some of dysprosia's work, not mine, I do care, but this is a BACKUP because I was planning to make a change to the page and then put it back to the way that it was.. I even explained that.


 * What are you talking about, Aaron? Dysprosia 04:13, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)
 * Doh, it was LordK who edited the page last before me, I got your names confused, I was going to revert the page to the state where I last had it, copy the source, then put it back to the way LordK changed it. It was an attempt to make it so that i wouldn't be guilty og going against what I was preaching, but the software tools didn't let me revert, or copy the page, so I went away for a while, hoping to see it be copied for me...

Whan was I told not to make new namespaces? they are just a convention... every single new page is a new namespace in a sence. AaronPeterson 04:05, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)


 * Several points: (1) I don't care whose work it was. I don't make edits based on who I'm editing - I make edits based on content. (2) If I have edited or deleted someone's contribution wrongly, I would feel bad about it and attempt to restore it. Frankly, the fact that you would 'HAHAHA' someone's valid work being deleted (if that were the case) is appalling to me. (3) When were you told? I'm not your PDA - but David Ross' 04/02/04 13:23 post to the mailing list, for one.


 * Digiot 04:24, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)

(1) you should, because people are different from on another and have different needs

(2) well, said that I did care, and well, nothing was changed on the software development page, so nothing happened... It's one thing to laugh at you, and another to laugh at a crime.

(3) Somebody (dystropia?) already made a great suggestion on how to make backups to pages, store them under your user naem! This should apply to you all also.

all i'm asking for is a bit of human decancy. I know you you can come arround, You can shed your dark ways and restore the ballance of the force.
 * AaronPeterson 04:37, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)


 * Aaron if some users are not content with their work being edited mercilessly, which is the fundamental to editing on a Wiki, or if some other users aren't content with pre-agreed formatting guidelines, or whatever, then we cannot work around not rewording or removing content, or not improving formatting, or whatever, which another feels should be improved. There's a Wikipedia saying that should be as equally as relevant here - editors should be bold in editing pages. This is the only way any real work gets done. Dysprosia 05:09, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)


 * I question a need for most of that work, it may be real, but it can also be really not helpfull, or harmfull at the same time. Copying a page is not that hard to do, recreating a page is hard to do.  Everyone is an editor.
 * Copying pages does not preserve edit history, and is thus discouraged.
 * Also, one can be boldly stupid, or boldly stupid and backup, or be boldly smart, and hopefully backup,
 * If others make stupid edits, they remove them. This is a wiki, after all!
 * This site is different from wikipedia, wikipedia has small articles about everything, we have articles about one thing.  and to makeing a wiki about one thing needs lots of alternate viewpoints to make it worthwhile.  Right now, viewpoints are getting merged NEEDLESSLY..
 * And this wiki doesn't? Have a look at how large Eterm, ICCCM or other articles are.
 * We can focus our work on adding new content and links, we can tweak pages, and NOT DUPLICATE, but REIMPLEMENT pages in a way that will make more sence in other contexts... and that can be helped by duplicating it..
 * I've had to go back and remiplement the Feature request aspect of bug reporting... because that's how it's really done... in real life! Why? (I actually think it was you)
 * If you would have read what I said, then maybe you would have understood why I removed the point about feature requests! Dysprosia 05:52, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)

I just see a lot of people trying to look busy, and they aren't REALLY helping anything, but they think that they are.. *sigh* AaronPeterson 05:25, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)

I'd like a copy of "your brain" copied to user:AaronPeterson/human_brain if possible too, I think I made the bold areas answer the questions immediately, and had an expansion of that info if the user needed more than a quick jumpstart. It appears that software development guidlines now requires the user to read the whole article to get the main points.

Also, These are suggestions, and tips and pointers... but tips and tricks already took that name, and are more tools oriented. Please reinste the link to tips and tricks

Infact, before merging two pages in a way that normal users cannot see the source of, please copy them to user:AaronPeterson/pagename[uniquenumber if neccissasry]]

AaronPeterson 05:55, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)

Here is a fishing rod: Dysprosia 06:07, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)
 * Click "Page history"
 * Select the version you want to copy
 * Click Edit this page.
 * Copy all the text.
 * Edit the new page you want
 * Paste the text in.

-- I must have clicked "cur" every time, or "last" every time, because one of those didn't have the edit page button, and, I swear i tried both of them.. But alas, I see the edit page button..
 * I'm a bit pail, or blushing*

Digiot, Dysprosia, I'm sorry, I missed the edit page, Dysprosia, thanks for getting me to try again. AaronPeterson 09:33, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)

I might have also tried on a protected page, but it says, protected page, so it kidna makes sence that it would behave differently.


 * 'Apology accepted.' (Sorry, still on the Vader jag. That comment of yours elsewhere about shedding my dark ways and restoring the balance of the Force tripped me out. :) ) Nah, seriously - if it was a case of trying and having troubles, rather than not trying at all, that's an honest mistake and I'm glad Dysprosia helped you get it worked out. But we're really off topic. Unless Dysprosia wants to reply (and afterwards, either way) let's try to stay on Software dev guidelines. Digiot 10:54, Apr 5, 2004 (EDT)


 * I think later today (after I've slept) I'm going to move the brunt of our off topic conversations to user:AaronPeterson/WikiWarI, to clear up the off topic stuff and keep a record. -- I hope that is ok, or there might be a wiki war II, LOL

AaronPeterson 14:05, Apr 7, 2004 (EDT)

Calling something a "war" may sound like it is meant in bad faith. In a day or two I'll archive this discussion in the regular fashion, making it a subpage of this. Dysprosia 02:45, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)

Humm, valid point, does the disclaimer "this is not supposed to be bad faith, it's just a cool name, and describes a conflict, and how to avoid it in the future" make sence?

i like your idea of a sub page better... When will the tools do special stuff with the sub pages? What to call the sub page? Me thinks I'll link to it from the wiki war page.. AaronPeterson 04:00, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)


 * Even so, calling it a war doesn't say what's been going on here. If you really want to, perhaps under the LQ Wiki namespace you could create a page with general tips about editing here. I'm going to move this page to Talk:Software development guidelines/Archive 1. Dysprosia 04:22, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)


 * I'd really like to see less discussion about the wiki no matter what the terms. The wiki is a means and is only as interesting as the useful Linux information it contains. This is being done primarily for the 'Linux community in general' and the Linux community in general almost certainly does not find our occasional disputes worth recording so that we can sing the tale by the fire while drinking our tankards of ale. It just ain't that big a deal. Let's do less navel-gazing and more work. Digiot 11:00, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)~

I'm still having trouble getting a copy of the old "your brain", I'm doing it as an eurgonomics page... please help?? When it got moved, the history doesn't appear to be kept AaronPeterson 05:41, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)


 * Yes it does, though it is kept under the new name. I'll copy the wikitext for you. Dysprosia 05:42, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)

The history started from a revision that I don't remember doing.. Maybe i'm just a flake.. but I thought that I edited it over multiple sessions, and I only saw one that I edited.. AaronPeterson 05:46, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT) yes, that's what I wanted, where was it again?


 * It's on your test subpage, if I think that's the version you wanted. Dysprosia 05:54, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)

Just wondering where you found it, I saw where you put it / where it is, Thanks! AaronPeterson 06:25, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)


 * This article -> Page history -> click on the link "05:23, Apr 4, 2004" -> click on Edit this page -> voila. Dysprosia 06:33, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)

Grrr, i must have hit *last* again., for some reason I'm completely confused by the ambiguity of "cur" and "last" AaronPeterson 06:50, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT) Doh, click on the date... I swear i read the how to revert a page faq a long time ago... AaronPeterson 06:52, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)


 * I don't want to get into this edit war, but I can shed a little light on "cur" and "last". In the page history, if you click on "cur", it'll show you the differences between that version and the current version.  The "last" link shows the difference between that version and the previous version (just before it).  You can't directly edit the difference pages.  If you click on the date on the history page, you can see that version and have a chance to edit it.  But if you do, it's a good idea not to actually edit the text.  Just put a revert note in the Summary saying what version and whose it was and save it.  Of course, reverting should be a last resort.  It is much better to try to edit the current version.  (Whoops, I forgot to sign.  I did this about 2 hours ago.)  --Snags 10:18, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)

Thanks!, note the edit war seems to have ended, It took me a while to realize what you just said, and I was very unhappy with the way things appeared to be. I'm gonna copy what you just said and put it in with some wiki tips.

I'm used to a tool where one can select two different pages, and show the difference between the selected versions in one step. and to revert, you click on a "revert to this version" button. and from what I'm used to, reversion just addes another item to the history. Differences between arbitrary pages is a wonderfull feature AaronPeterson 09:00, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)


 * You need to be a sysop/admin to use [rollback] links. The arbitrary diff thing is only on the wp's version of MediaWiki, though, I think. Dysprosia 10:23, Apr 8, 2004 (EDT)