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hmm... I still do not need which program I use to play midi files (ThorstenStaerk).

wiki_war Note: the page is not a patch! and the reference is fore more than just patching.. please do not introduce factual errors (/war}

(Wiki_War) I must have the URL be copyable. It is essential. I'll back down on some of the stupid irrelevant bulleting. (/war)

Note: please feel free to delete the Wiki_War sections if they were targeted at you. or delete them if they are stale.

Thank you so much. I think I'll just move them here.

I don't suppose you realize I could delete this page. In fact, I believe I can block your IP from this site. But while that's in my so-called 'power' I don't believe it is in my rights. Have it your way for now. Perhaps this site's owner will agree with you.

We want people to contribute. We want differing opinions. I suspect we do not want blatant disregard of the site's policy and disrespect to its members.

Digiot 06:04, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

Well, there are some very confusing things about this wiki...

it has lots of things that look like they should be automatically doing stuff.. but are merely convention.

like: talk:midi has something to do with changing namespace.. but it acts just like a regular wiki page... with a ':' in the middle of it.

We need to get some automatic tools out here.. (like backlinks)

I have weaknesses... but I think those come from my devotion to a few things, and ignoring others...

I care about organization so much that it cuts into my caring about spelling.. excpet for having a correctly spelled wiki name...

We have the functionality of backlinks. I'm not sure what you see as "confusing", but I'd guess that it's a result of you using different wiki software previously. Jeremy 11:42, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

Hm. I get that. But it really would be better to join the mailing list and discuss these things rather than charging in here and declaring wiki wars. ;) The site owner is very openand approachable and the sysops are an excellent crew and, more than that, the community as a whole seems to be superb. So just get into the conversation. Present your views. Get consensus. Then act.

Digiot 06:17, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

I hope to make a totaly branching wiki, where people subscribe to trees... and people can just... plunge ahead..

why all the "plunge ahead" notification if that's not what you guys want?

Also, I come from a wiki only enviornment. meaning: I've not worked with other people on a wiki.. (the other major power of the wiki, other than the ability to fix errors and have them all automatically recorded)

So I'm a big of a savage...

but, I don't see a mailing list in the table of contents.

There are already 1000 users here. If you'd like to participate here you'll need to work with others. You are always encouraged to plunge ahead, but need to follow the conventions of this site. Jeremy 11:42, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

I missed this earlier.


No, it's definitely 'plunge ahead'. But plunging ahead to create an article leads directly to an edit box with links to the 'help' page and the 'MoS'. :D It's perfectly okay to make mistakes - I'm just not so sure about making purposeful mistakes. ;)

Digiot 06:50, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

who defines what a mistake is ;)
please add me to your IM, or maybe we can make a tool to make wiki talking easier..

Well, what I mean is that several people, Skyline especially, have been doing a tremendous amount of working formatting 'See also' and 'External links' sections and he'd have just come along and done the same thing I started to do, since that's how we've agreed to format things. So making work for Skyline and others when they're following the MoS and you're not, would count as a mistake. ;)

It wouldn't do any good to add you to my IM - I never use it. I only installed it for... I guess you might say 'emergencies'. But, as I say, these talk pages and and the mailing lists are always open.

Digiot 07:15, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

making wiki talk easier would be very nice... a wiki plugin for kopete would be nice... or some form of push technology is needed.

The talk pages are not to be used like IM. Talk Pages Jeremy 11:47, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

note, I create pages, then I go back again and fill them out, I know this is hard on the edit page... but lots of wiki's deal with this problem by combining multiple edits from the same user into one diff record...

about your guys tremendous amount of work... wiki's are supposed to save work... hiding a url makes the page less fuctional (in most cases) and it takes more work to do!

I suggest waiting a day or so after somebody has created a page before moderating it into oblivion..

I attempted to join the mailing list... I'll give in a bit to your guys habbits, but hopefully my points remain sharp. (I just saw thebroken episode 3.. it was awesome.. they interviewed a really elete hacker.. he said that when he was in jail, he had to fight to keep his property, otherwise people would just walk over him... loosing wasn't that big of a deal as long as the threat of fighting back kept the bullies away. There are some connections between that any any type of arguing... i've learned something today... yadayadaydada

  • in addition to the see also (peers to the document),
there needs to be the 
  • "member of" type links (parent documents) note there may be more than one parent for a document...
  • and the page describes the child links

there also needs to be DENSITY in a wiki. wiki's end up being super long pages that are super hard to navigate... pages should be relatively short.. and could benefit from tables or colums.

I write "See Also" areas densly (ie not bulleted) because they belong right next to the title, because a page with content...also, the pages are used as navigation device...and the extra scrolling makes that use impractical.

Basically, a programmers job is to be lazy.

wich is also the job of an engineer.

We write tools to save time / money., or we build devices as cheaply as possible while meeting the need of the client. (this is ALWAYS... note, some projects require insane stability.. like the space shuttle.. and so the needs of the client are super huge, and the cost goes up with that)

--Aaron Peterson

Aaron - the Mos is in its early stages and is not set in stone - the impetus for much of the content comes from several other well known Wiki's - that's not to imply that we should inherit those guidelines blindly - rather, we're using them as a starting point only - if you have any ideas that relate to style issues or any others that you consider might be of some use, please propose them on the mailing list - other members will then have the opportunity to scrutinize them...... if they're found to be sufficiently compelling, and offer advantages, then they could be implemented.

Skyline 11:10, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)

again, I'm used to being alone on wikis that I've worked on, I thought that all of the things I was doing were self evident. I am on the mailing list now. I was genuinely ticked off that the page that I worked on got changed so quickly, I'm rallied/charged rather easily. I see errors/inefficiency rather well, I just need to be able to do something about it/convince you guys..

Digiot, I think I said "patch" after the hyperlink that I was refering to that I accused you of making factual errors on... I write as I learn, and they do call it a patch.. but it doesn't look like it's applied like a normal patch, it has something to do with sound fonts.. all I know is I now have timidity working on my system.... anyway, I leave free associations arround where that's all I know. Sometimes that's enough for people to find what they need. Sometimes it can be confusing... so that confusion could be a reason not to do it... but I still think the benefit out weighs the possible confusion... especially that of a moderator that is only trying to apply format...

that leads into... this is a wiki... we need scrutiny of people who know the topic... the following is an absurd/extreme example,

Fred posts a page that has all kinds off seemingly attrotious errors..

but they arn't errors! the spelling is goofy, the bad wiki formating makes the page look really cruddy... but it could be the point of the message..

I think the creator of the page should be able to control the pages format, with possible exceptions of being forced to include some form navigation/ owner shouldn't have a monopoly of all pages of that certain type... and then there is forking..

Err... a Wiki is about collaboration. If you're used to being alone on a Wiki, maybe you want to make a static website instead? We must all fall under the rules and guidelines that have been set up at a Wiki, and if you disagree with them, you can add discussion to get it changed. But if you're used to control, maybe the Wiki idea is not for you. Dysprosia 17:30, Mar 24, 2004 (EST)